Crestline Soaring Society
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just heard....... some bad news, "I think Dennis only has a broken arm, 3 broken ribs and a very black eye". Glad it wasn't worse than it is. Does anyone have more to add? Forums > Pilot Reports Flight > HG · Safety · Incidents Sites > AJ Airpark that sucks.That sucks. This is not a commercial plug or about me in any way, but a situation like this is the primary reason why we're doing the Big O Loop. The training hill is good, but it's not the same as a full launch, an approach, busting through the gradient, and a landing. Dennis, when you come back, it should be ready, bud. Get well, soon. Please tell me this is just a test of our camaraderieOr tell me this is an early April 1st gotcha. Word is that he flew fromWord is that he flew from the mountain Monday w/radio coaching, got too low east of the LZ to make the LZ and then ground-looped/cartwheeled into the ditch east of the base of the LZ. Five firetrucks came plus other vehicles, helicopter ride to Arrowhead Medical Center down by the 10 Fwy. I just noticedThis is posted under the BS section. Ken, can you move to Pilot Reports? Heal quick yes.Heal quick yes. Back on the horse, I think not. Two solos ending with helicopter rides to the hospital is a definite sign. Some people just don't, can't, "get it" for hang gliding. I'd say that all of us, who may have many and varied competencies, have run into some activity that we just couldn't "get", for whatever reason, be it physical or mental or both. I can't ice skate. I can roller skate like a mofo (could back in the day, anyway) but balancing on those blades didn't EVER work. My ankles are very loose laterally, in 'roll'. As an infant my feet were rolled in such a way that I'd stand on the outside edges of them instead of the bottoms. I wore clunky orthopedic shoes to school and cumbersome braces at night to stretch the developing cords and sinews so that I would walk on the the bottoms of my feet naturally. It worked great and I can run just fine. I can ski, play racquetball, even dance (if threatened with a gun). The only problem is my ankles roll sideways very very easily. For the little bit of football I played, I taped my ankles before every practice and every game and I still "turned" an ankle regularly. Maybe my mental circuits for ankle-roll control just don't work well. Or maybe I just never "got" how to balance on ice skates; not much of a loss for a California boy, but it was very frustrating in my early teens, given that a certain group of girls really liked to ice skate. I got over it. Dennis clearly doesn't "get" hang gliding and/or aerodynamics at some profound level. He's flown from the mountain and survived. Barely. He's made a sincere and respectable effort at learning to fly. But he hasn't learned. Simply missing our LZ shouldn't result in multiple fractures. If he had absorbed the gestalt of what it is to fly a hang glider, he would have simply landed in the bushes, maybe gotten scraped up a bit. But no, he piled in with a Falcon, the easiest glider out there, breaking an arm and ribs. Dennis needs to find something else to do. Switching to paragliding isn't the answer. Considering the way PG demands that you constantly monitor your wing's "situation" and react instinctively when there's a problem, I'd expect paragliding to be even more dangerous for him.
C U soon DTalked to Dennis tonight. Groggy but talking sane and even thinking about the whole flying thing. Serious situation we all agree. I'm just thankful he's gonna recover soon. Reminds me that life is frail and ever so precious, We are all praying for you Dennis! Ken Steps Up Again ...by diplomatically saying what a number of us were thinking. Dennis, you should know ALL of us would like to see you flying, BUT also know this: we prefer you alive. There's no question you are wearing a big pair of brass ones, or you wouldn't try so hard, especially at a sport so few accomplish. I play guitar after a fashion, but it is a constant source of dismay to my wife that a person who can play an instrument and sing (?!) at the same time can't dance for sh#%!. Just no connection. She grew up dancing, so it makes no sense to her. Hang in there and heal up quick. We look forward to seeing you. Hi folks, Typing oneHi folks, Typing one handed is a trick to be mastered for the short term. I'm not too badly roughed up, really. I lucked out and was able to avoid surgery. Upon leaving arrowhead regional and instead going to LLUMC, (better hospital) 1 have a broken left humerus and shattered my right eye orbital recess. If you have to break bones, this is the way to do it. Healing time wont be a protracted thing for me, but I will take advantage of that time to heal. As far as Ken"s comments, regardless of what you think about if I get it or not, I'll leave that up to the time I spend in healing. Maybe you feel it necessary to take a poke at me over this, only you know your motives. Ultimately, the decision is mine. My second pile-in, is my own fault, I set up a bad approach, I flew it, I crashed. There you have it. Yes, maybe I could have landed in a bushy spot, it didn't happen that way. Of course, you don't know, you weren't flying MY "easy to fly Falcon". Speculate all you wish. Free country. I'll tell you this, I love flying, I also love this club and many of it"s great pilots. I sure as hell won't be run off by something as ugly as Monday morning quarter backing. Fly your own wings and I'll worry about the "if I decide this or that" for myself. Keep in mind that I too am a member here and entitled to all rights and privileges of that membership. As of this writing, I may or may not ever fly again, it is my choice, I do love the sport. Spend this time instead of poking sticks at me, wish me well in what ever I decide, now, wouldn't that be better? I'll keep my red dots, I'll even own them. I'll face them, I'll even share what I've got out of them. We can talk more of this when I can better type and with both hands. I wanted to reply to you and let everyone know I'm getting on well, all things considered. -Dennis
Good responsegood response, Dennis. There are those of us like Ken (and I've done it with another pilot in the past) who feel compelled to say things that need saying. Picture Ken on your shoulder, neither in white nor wearing horns and carrying a pitchfork, but as a voice making suggestions. Ken's comments are likely born out of the same instinct that leads him to be generally helpful. Usually, you can't get the help without the concern. Personally, I'll take both. I bent enough metal last year that I have taken myself back a notch (actually, I've done that twice) to hammer down the fundamentals. I'm working on the Big O Loop for myself as much as anyone else. If it were up right now, I'd drop a $100 on tickets my first day back (I haven't flow in a while). I'm glad you're going to mull things over and glad you are not going to be making the decision right away. Hang in, get well. Thanks Ken. GoodThanks Ken. Good thoughts. WTFD, PokingI don't think Ken is poking, I think he has legitimate concerns, I think many of us do. I'd file his comments under "the tribe has spoken." But yes, ultimately the decision is your to continue. Hey Rod, thanks for theHey Rod, thanks for the reply, I think you're right, Ken isn't trying to poke sticks at me. I'm sure Ken's heart is in the right place. Hockey stick? to lean on? Who pays for the helocopter ride and medical care? You know, if the hockey stick doesn't work and you hit your head. Ken I hope your dream to ice skate comes true someday! -Peter S WTF...Five Trucks and a Helicopter......Wow! Major bonus pay for the local rescue crews. ?So how many fire men does it take to aid one hang glider pilot? Or did they take crash and burn literally ? Better too manyBetter too many than not enough. We do give them a pile of toys every year. Maybe this is how they reciprocate. Thanks, Emergency Responders! Dusty, great photography!Dusty, great photography! Would you email me a copy of the original sized one. I would like to print it out and put it in my HG scrap book, it serves as an excellent visual reminder and lesson for me. I want to be completely open and forthcoming about my experience, maybe even to show other student pilots in a "Dont let this happen to you" lesson to others, my hope is to maximize all the good that can come from my accident. -Dennis Nice photoBTW... Dennis's hang glider scrap book is made from real hang glider scraps! Rod, *wince* I think I haveRod, *wince* I think I have a few of those laying around. The race is on.... Godspeed to you... Steve Hang Gliding is inherently fun In other words............Dennis will still be learning something new about hang gliding each time he flies as he approaches being an octogenarian AFAIC. I had a long chat w/ Dennis last night and realized that both he and I tend to fixate on doing things a certain way and become nearly oblivious to pending doom or ways out of our predicament. This can and will, make it difficult to impossible to make adjustments for when what we have fixated on is now steering us toward trouble. In my case this has resulted in a lot of tubage and several sprains, not to mention boggling Rod's mind. ;-) My late father and late brother had the same trait and it ultimately killed my dad and routinely imperiled my brother. We had an H3 at Sylmar nearly buy the farm because of this same trait. In fact, the same pilot nearly turtled me when he was my wireman and froze up during a side gust. There are a lot of experienced pilots reading and writing to this thread. Let's focus on what we can do to help Dennis overcome this trait. In fact, I'd like to hear what others have either done to successfully cure this problem with themselves or with others. I still have plenty of work to do in this regard. two racesThe tortoise wins the learning race by taking his time and learning slowly and thoroughly and the hare wins the flying race by flying fast. (Hares hate to stall and so should you) Personally, if it was up to me, I would not let you off the ground again until you MASTERED some rc flying. To that end I will donate a brand new set of foam wings that are guaranteed to take more hits than me and a Red Delicious apple. " Take....these broken wings...and learn to.... Doh!!!! I digress. Excellent Suggestion StephenRC planes can teach you more about (and develop a healthy fear of) Rotor than any book or instructor. They also help with visualization. I'd guess a large percentage of HG / PG pilots have played around with some sort of an RC plane before. Great learning tool. Can't go wrong learning to fly RCThey also help you learn about how airspeed affects glide performance, how control feel changes with speed (especially when approaching stall), how bank angle affects stall speed, how to center a thermal, how to predict ground track when circling in wind, etc. The most important thing that rc flying will do is improve you reaction time when things change. Remember, "Early detection, small correction." And they are way cheaper than down tubes too... I believe that RC Hang Gliding is inherently fun Don't let this happen to you?Dennis, DC, Thank you for the kindDC, Thank you for the kind words. Yes, it is true that I really love the club, I also LOVE to fly, even now, as I sit here, awaiting the 8+ weeks until I get my cast off, my thoughts are on flying. I do very much enjoy the social aspect of as well. I just want the rest of the pilots in the club know that I feel the same way about flying that they do, which is why after this second accident where I pounded in short of AJX, I still feel the same about flying. Sure, I'm scared of crashing, I'm scared that I may die from a flying related trauma, I'm afraid of lots of things. As I thought about that, I want to become a stronger and smarter pilot so I can enjoy flying for the many years to come, if I quit now, I allow crummy circumstances to beat me, left forever looking up, yet, never again feeling living flight, the literal sense of feeling the wind beneath my wings. I submit this question, "What kind of life is that"? I can only assume that you too are obsessed with flying, why would anyone risk limb and life to do so without a burning desire to fly? For me at least, hang gliding really is living the dream. My friends at CSS are fantastic, I care enough about them too to fear they too risk limb and life to fly, I guess that is why I understand them so well. I want to do what they do, FLY! -Dennis Dennis, We have not met,Dennis, We have not met, although I am a long time CSS member, I rarely fly there, but I wanted to offer up my two cents. As a stranger I will skip the advice or encouragement to continue flying or to find a new hobbie, as that is ultimately your decision, even though that decision has consequences for many people besides yourself. I believe that all of us that have ever flown gliders relate to your desire to continue. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and I suggest that you consider trying a few flights in a sailplane, as a possibly safer alternative or as a complement to hang gliding. For one thing it is definately easier on the old body when your landing gear has a wheel instead of a pair of aging legs. Let me know when you are up and about, and perhaps I can give you a demo ride at Lake Elsinore. Best of luck with your recovery, and with you flying decisions, Alan C "Love to Fly"says it all. I feel the same way. I understand your zeal and compulsion to press forward - I felt it and continue to. You've tasted it, a little of the sweet and a lot of the bitter, and you can't wait for more. Try the RC flying while you're healing - it really is good practice for when you're up there next time. I did it for years before HG and it really teaches you the limitations of non-powered flight. I had similar experiences as I was starting to fly but I was fortunate to have not had such dramatic consequences. Fortunately Elsinore has many places to land short. At this stage we're not ready to fly around...launch, fly straight to the LZ with tons of altitude and circle it until time to set up and land. Period. It took me some time to realize that if you dont' get up you don't get to fly around too much like the "big boys" and that in the end, it's not worth trying too hard. There's a learning curve that can't be bypassed or rushed. My two cents. See ya up in da air. And yet did I mention It only takes one thumb to fly the rc wings. Hard lessons"Third time's the charm" is what I hope for you Dennis. Mike B. |
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Arghh
That's really sad to hear. I like Dennis, and I know he's been working really hard on learning, and Bob K has been putting in tons of time with him on the training hill. I'm not sure what his next move is. Who knows... maybe he should try paragliding. Maybe the flight controls will be more native to his flying style.
I know for me, I tried paragliding first and "just didn't get it" and switched to hang with great success.
